tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post976909389315499470..comments2024-02-21T02:19:19.666-07:00Comments on hanzismatter.blogspot.com: Only the Ones Asking for Tattootianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14696711693095229683noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-23309850578582591372005-03-31T16:37:08.106-07:002005-03-31T16:37:08.106-07:00"How dare you question my shakey assumptions ..."How dare you question my shakey assumptions with your reasonable logic instead of helping me INSTANTLY LIKE I WANT YOU TO!"<br><br>What a maroon. (Insert optional grumble about AOLers here.)<br><br>BTW, I like your site very much, Tian. It's like a reverse Engrish.com. Shows there's stupid translation on both sides of the pond.Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-86845681479826504912005-03-31T17:21:38.753-07:002005-03-31T17:21:38.753-07:00it always smacks of old imperialism when people sp...it always smacks of old imperialism when people speak of the collective far east ("the Chinese & Japanese culture") as "a beautiful, interesting, and exotic culture."<br><br>being fascinated in another culture is not a bad thing at all, but when the fascination is so shallow that the other culture is treated with the same degree of interest as some funny tricks a dog can perform, it's all very insulting and disrespectful. if people just bothered to put in a little time into actually learning about another culture, they just might not say things like "Kanzi (Japanese Traditional)."<br><br>if that sort of email had been sent to me, i'm not even sure i would have replied at all. of course, then i would have missed the hilarious follow-ups. ("I'm sure the the pics of the people you've showcased on your site wasn't of Chinese or Japanese people or desent..........WERE THEY????????") ha ha ha...Andyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17260380091472430211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-74022326165548512112005-03-31T18:01:05.870-07:002005-03-31T18:01:05.870-07:00Rachel and Andy,Thank you guys for the comments. ...Rachel and Andy,<br><br>Thank you guys for the comments. Recently I had a person emailing me about translating his family name and Coat of Arms (family crest?) into Chinese characters. <br><br>At first I was quite happy, especially this gives me an opportunity to find out more about the Anglo-Saxon clan culture.<br><br>Then I realized this guy only wanted it so he can tattoo the characters around the family crest onto his arm.<br><br>Especially when he mentioned in his email about "the meaningfulness and artful nature of the Kanji version..."<br><br>English, Chinese and Japanese are all just languages. You say "sh!t"<br>in English, we say "屎", they all mean the same thing.<br><br>There is an idiom 崇洋媚外, what it means "worship foreign things,<br>obsequious to foreigners".tianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14696711693095229683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-6294185724714933732005-03-31T18:25:03.456-07:002005-03-31T18:25:03.456-07:00Tian,You have to admit, though, that there is a ce...Tian,<br><br>You have to admit, though, that there is a certain sense of artistry to Chinese characters that doesn't really exist with the Roman alphabet. While they are both, at heart, writing systems used to convey a language, there's a pretty big difference in using ideographs to depict meaning and using simple characters which only imply sound.<br><br>That being said, I'm still in complete agreement with the distastefulness endemic to treating another culture like some pretty little thing on the surface. I used to live in Japan, and my fellow Americans back in the U.S. used to always whine about how jealous they were that I got to live in such an amazing country that was so much cooler than America. This completely discounts the fact that Japan is rife with its own problems, including xenophobia, mysogyny, and any number of other social issues.<br><br>Needless to say, now that I live in the U.S. again, there are things that I of course miss about living in Japan, and things that I'm glad to be away from.<br><br>And while I do speak, write, read, and understand Japanese, I'm not about to get anything tattooed on my body.Rikoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-76586801665151975462005-03-31T18:30:45.893-07:002005-03-31T18:30:45.893-07:00Rikoshi,Very well said.Rikoshi,<br><br>Very well said.tianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14696711693095229683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-38406427881650864752005-03-31T19:01:31.540-07:002005-03-31T19:01:31.540-07:00RE: RikoshiOK, well, maybe Veranda and Helvetica ...RE: Rikoshi<br><br>OK, well, maybe Veranda and Helvetica aren't great works of art, but calligraphy of the Roman alphabet (and related ones) certainly is. Old manuscripts can be quite beautiful works of art on their own.<br><br>I am not sure it really is the "Oooo... Asia!" of it so much as the fact that the culture as been romanticised via media such that it seems like a paradise. You don't see many Westerners wanting tatoos in Vietnamese these days.<br><br>Different cultures are cool, but I don't think you can claim to be "fasinated with the Chinese & Japanese culture for many years" and have gained knowledge about the culture if you can't point out its weaknesses.<br><br>Thanks for the giggle, Tian!<br>Fionnghuala ní hÓgáinreuliùilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-4318639119671639442005-03-31T20:33:27.910-07:002005-03-31T20:33:27.910-07:00I'm baffled as to how anyone can be so oblivio...I'm baffled as to how anyone can be so oblivious to the use of Google. Type "chinese dictionary" and a dozen free, accurate, easy-to-use dictionaries pop up. Maybe Tian should post a link to zhongwen.com or some other dictionary site; that might cut down the number of silly questions.<br><br>shi-hsiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-60745615466310529622005-03-31T20:40:33.313-07:002005-03-31T20:40:33.313-07:00Tian, perhaps you have to make it clear on your bl...Tian, perhaps you have to make it clear on your blog that you don't offer services in translation. I believe you set up the blog in order to laugh at the stupidity of some people. You don't have the obligation to help others, right? :OAngelahttp://www.livejournal.com/users/angechrissy/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-53447877651623336042005-03-31T21:16:07.280-07:002005-03-31T21:16:07.280-07:00Conversely, though, aren't English words and l...Conversely, though, aren't English words and lettering quite popular in some Asian cultures? When I was in Badaling province three years ago, half the signs were written in English as well as Chinese- and not even the ubiquitous "Engrish," either fairly sensible English or completely random words; my personal favourite was a noodle restaurant called "TACO!" Their punctuation. <br><br>Oh, and I also bought a great sweater there with a boy and girl kissing above the message "WONDER WOMEN PARTY." I freakin' love that sweater.<br><br>I'm sure that Asians who enjoy the look of Roman characters aren't going out and having "DUMPLING HOUSE" written on their bottoms, but shouldn't we be fair about the mutual admiration thing?Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-80967227259246462272005-03-31T21:36:39.653-07:002005-03-31T21:36:39.653-07:00Tian, love your site. I am a tattoo artist and I d...Tian, love your site. I am a tattoo artist and I do read Chinese. From my perspective, it's business and I do my best to educate.<br><br>I have seen some people in Asia with their names tattooed in English, and I have seen some shirt with very bad English on it (but funny), so I think it goes both ways.<br><br>The truth is that some people just don't care. They want so and so in one character only, and a cool looking one too. I have plenty of horror stories to share but if one does not do the research, then one deserves whatever is coming. <br><br>One more thing: I have to tell people that just because they see it on a shirt, bottle cap, a sheet of tattoo flash, a photo of a tattoo, internet, or even a dictionary, it does not mean they have the right characters, and you can't just stack them.... people still do it, and it is very frustration from my point of view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-79328673557644826842005-03-31T21:39:39.264-07:002005-03-31T21:39:39.264-07:00I mean "frustrating", ha ha, a tattoo ar...I mean "frustrating", ha ha, a tattoo artist who can't spell-check....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-7183538161645695652005-03-31T21:39:39.263-07:002005-03-31T21:39:39.263-07:00Re: a said ...That's why we have engrish.com. ...Re: a said ...<br><br>That's why we have engrish.com. I think people who automatically think something is cool just because it's written in English/Roman characters have the same deficiencies as Mr. Aol here does. I recall a few high school students in Japan being shocked when I told them what the "Playboy" lettering and bunny-symbol meant. Hanzismatter and Engrish.com are meant to wake people up.<br><br>BTW Tian, there's a nice double meaning in your site name ... <br><br>a) Hanzi Smatter - a whole bunch of Chinese characters<br>b) Hanzis Matter - yes, I know a plural form is redundant, but dammit, they do matter! :-DKKSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-8177733194280491052005-03-31T21:59:22.036-07:002005-03-31T21:59:22.036-07:00a) Hanzi Smatter - a whole bunch of Chinese charac...a) Hanzi Smatter - a whole bunch of Chinese characters<br>b) Hanzis Matter - yes, I know a plural form is redundant, but dammit, they do matter! :-D<br><br>Not to mention that German guy who didn't get the part in <i>Star Wars</i>: <br>c) "Han, zis matter off payment for ze trip to Alderaan . . ."Durfhttp://durf.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-48362811435250729262005-03-31T23:44:48.346-07:002005-03-31T23:44:48.346-07:00KKS and Durf,The play on words with hanzismatter, ...KKS and Durf,<br><br>The play on words with hanzismatter, I am so pleased that somebody has finally understood what it was all about! <br><br>The word "smatter" in English actually means "superficial knowledge". <br><br>Well done, guys. Bravo.tianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14696711693095229683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-8136334970350308682005-04-01T00:06:22.893-07:002005-04-01T00:06:22.893-07:00re: ait's not about roman letters looking any ...re: a<br><br>it's not about roman letters looking any good (not that they don't); it's the status that english itself has in many parts of the world. despite the current government that might be unpopular in areas, the american culture has sold itself as something to aspire to. many chinese people are impressed by other chinese people who can speak english, because it makes them appear more cosmopolitan and worldly.<br><br>if it was just roman letters that were appealing to those in asia, then it wouldn't even be engrish everywhere. it would just be complete gibberish like "AKSDHCJKNE." this is, however, the case in the west, so people get tattoos of backwards/upside down characters or characters missing strokes/written with the wrong strokes.<br><br>i agree tho, that engrish is funny, but the difference is that a lot of people in east asia look up to american culture and the power it represents, while the majority of the current mainstream american fascination with chinese characters is like a child and their new favorite toy, to be replaced when they get another new toy. i really wish this wasn't the case, but that's just how i see it. perhaps someday it will be different.<br><br>by the way, where is badaling province?Andyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17260380091472430211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-78704878117527582332005-04-01T00:30:35.563-07:002005-04-01T00:30:35.563-07:00Andy - Badaling is a section of the Great Wall nea...Andy - Badaling is a section of the Great Wall near Beijing.Brendanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17829838343050554709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-53754883435727753762005-04-01T01:03:14.900-07:002005-04-01T01:03:14.900-07:00i kno, i've been there. i just didn't kno ...i kno, i've been there. i just didn't kno it was a whole province.<br><br>sorry, i probably shouldn't have tried using sarcasm. it very nearly never works in written form. serves me rite for trying to be a smartass.Andyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17260380091472430211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-13054893420688459352005-04-01T05:21:27.813-07:002005-04-01T05:21:27.813-07:00Andy, they do sometimes use roman letters as compl...Andy, they do sometimes use roman letters as complete gibberish. I can't tell you how many times I saw randome strings of letters in the clothing market when I lived in China.<br><br>In fact, my old roommate from China sent me a bag for Christmas. At the top it says "MCIYEY MOXYE" and the balloon coming from Mickey's mouth contains the phrase "OKHOO COLOS." Isn't this gibberish? (let me know if it's correct in some langauge I don't know)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-2883742660694047222005-04-01T06:58:14.980-07:002005-04-01T06:58:14.980-07:00I agree with the commenters pointing out that hanz...I agree with the commenters pointing out that hanzi smatter and engrish are two sides of the same coin. I'm not offended at engrish because it's a superficial, faddish use of "my" language. It's just for fun. People will play with language, no matter what their culture. So I suggest taking a lighter attitude toward Westerners who want to get kanji tattoos, just as Westerners take toward engrish. I don't think people are poseurs for wanting to play with language or for preferring east Asian aesthetics to Western ones. (Personally, I think calligraphy with Roman characters is ugly. That doesn't mean I'm a traitor to my culture.)Katiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10204374102560127804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-73972590856042237572005-04-01T10:36:15.816-07:002005-04-01T10:36:15.816-07:00re: anonymousthey might seem like random strings, ...re: anonymous<br><br>they might seem like random strings, but they aren't. they're an imitation of english, or name brands. for instance, "MCIYEY MOXYE" is just their version of "MICKEY MOUSE." it's in the same vain as buying FOLEX brand watches, PRABA wallets, and CUCCI purses. "OKHOO COLOS" is just a mixed up version of what he actually says in a picture that the designer of the "knock-off" created.<br><br>i have to admit tho, i have seen random strings of letters from some japanese sources, but they weren't because any one roman letter looked good. it was because the gibberish string was supposed to represent english.<br><br>i'm sorry if my comments sound like i'm deeply offended by the fad of tattooing something you don't kno what it says on yourself. honestly, i don't care what other people do to their own bodies and in their own lives. but that doesn't mean i would want to deal with people who treat an aspect of any culture like it's an amusing diversion. the fact that the writer of the funny email was so offended that tian didn't want to help her and that he dared so much as to ask her why she wanted to do it is ridiculous. <br><br>again, i enjoy engrish as much as the next person, but i guess a question i have is, why would anyone permanently mark themselves with a tattoo that is a fad and something they don't kno much about? remember those "tribal" tattoos that all those people got last decade? i guess it all ends up to be pretty funny as long as it isn't me.Andyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17260380091472430211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-55338034225159981862005-04-01T11:34:54.353-07:002005-04-01T11:34:54.353-07:00I'm honestly amazed no-one's pointed out t...I'm honestly amazed no-one's pointed out the glaring mental deficiency behind the idea that "No one saves us but ourselves. No one can, no one may. For we ourselves must walk the path." can be written in <i>two entirely seperate languages in exactly the same way</i>. That's like asking someone "Can you write *insert phrase here* so that it'll make sense in both Finnish and Spanish. They're both European and they use some of the same letters, so it should be fine."<br><br>How on Earth did this guy manage to even find his way out of the womb?Geofhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11740002660256792935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-977670795760116122005-04-01T11:39:20.663-07:002005-04-01T11:39:20.663-07:00Also briefly and tangentially - I just checked the...Also briefly and tangentially - I just checked the Naming FAQ on Good Characters. They make good points, but when I see a site specializing in this stuff misspell things like "pinyin" and "Min" it makes me somewhat less eager to use their service.Geofhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11740002660256792935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-64609685086967718902005-04-01T11:57:29.523-07:002005-04-01T11:57:29.523-07:00Geof -- ssh! They're site sponsors for hanzism...Geof -- ssh! They're site sponsors for hanzismatter!<br><br>Andy -- d'oh. Sorry about that; it always irritates me when people don't get that I'm being sarcastic online.Brendanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17829838343050554709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-46771736265818192312005-04-01T12:29:09.020-07:002005-04-01T12:29:09.020-07:00Andy, you're absolutely right about MCIYEY MOX...Andy, you're absolutely right about MCIYEY MOXYE. It was a bad example, because I really have seen strings of random letters, just not on anything I bought.<br><br>When I was in China, almost everyone wore clothes with roman lettering. They just paid no attention to the meaning. Once when I was shopping with the aforementioned roommate, we saw a shirt with Charlie Brown and Peppermint Patty, who was laughing and the shirt had HA HA HA... in huge letters. I pointed it out to her and it was like she had never noticed the letters before I showed her.<br><br>People get used to ignoring things. The first semester I was there, I had no time to learn Chinese. Eventually my eyes totally ignored the hanzi on the signs, automatically leaping from pinyin/English sign to pinyin/English sign. That was a hard habit to overcome once I began reading hanzi.<br><br>How many of these tattooed people can *write* the characters on their bodies? Just for looks, IMO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3919350949272858772.post-48585159730964549012005-04-01T12:55:11.326-07:002005-04-01T12:55:11.326-07:00Long-time reader, first-time poster.A lot of peopl...Long-time reader, first-time poster.<br><br>A lot of people have chimed in. I'd like to add one thing about Engrish. Frequently, Engrish makes perfect sense if it's "back translated" into Chinese/Japanese or wherever.<br><br>For instance, there was a clothing line in Taiwan for many years called 單身貴族. This is a common colloquial name for young, unmarried people. It would be similar to opening a shop in the States called "Singletons". Suffice it to say I've heard worse.<br><br>Well, English names are fashionable, so this brand was advertised all over Taiwan as "Single Noble Fashion", which to a non-Mandarin speaker, looks very odd indeed.<br><br>Anyhow, emailers asking for Chinese tatoos, I would ask a basic question: Do you really want to trust the translation of a language you can't read to a guy who pokes fun at Westerners abusing Hanzi (even if it's in good fun)?wumingzihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14806519772725087237noreply@blogger.com