http://profiles.yahoo.com/princemuchao
I don’t know who “Prince Mu-Chao” is, nor if that is his real name.
He first approached me via email last week,
“My wife and I are looking at getting a couple of tattoos using Chinese characters, and since I am a longtime fan of your site, I thought I would ask you your opinion of Formosa Translation. Does this seem like a reputable translation service to you?”
I could browse through the links he sent briefly and give him a quick “go ahead”, but I would be then compromising my own ethics. I even wrote about Eri Takase’s poor translation choice just a few days ago.
Certainly there are many sites on the internet and tattoo shops advertise “get your Chinese/Japanese tattoo here”, but they are in the business of making money.
Many professional translation services like Good Characters usually decline translation services that involve tattoos due to liability issues. Since there is obviously no control of how the translations would be used. In some cases, even when the characters are correct themselves, but during the transfer process, the characters are placed onto client’s body incorrectly.
Prince Mu-Chao was not happy when I told him I would not comment about his previous email.
“I think that is pretty shitty of you to encourage queries by listing emails people send you on your site, but then in cases where they do not lend comedic value, decline to help out.”
Yes, Prince Mu-Chao, I am a terrible person and I deserve to be punished for my denial of your request.
But in my defense, I would like to borrow your personal favorite quote via your Yahoo Personal Profile:
"I don’t wish to offend you unless you are an idiot."
Update: April 10, 2006 - Reader Charlie says:
Tian,
Looking at your latest posting about a 'good' translation service, there is one generic piece of advice you can give out, basically you can't trust any of them. What do you do? Use many.
Basically, give the same query to two translations houses and see if you get the same result back. If not, you have an 'issue'. If you really want to make sure you are correct, you can also have one translate it, and then pay another to translate it back. Then again, that is pretty much what you do.
Several medical transcription companies do more or less the same thing, they do the work twice and then compare the two results. If there is a mismatch, both are redone. It costs twice as much, but in both cases, tatoo and translations, it is probably worth it. :)
Related: April 10, 200 - "asshole" tattoo seeker:
(transcript)
I suggest Prince Mu-Chao have the Chinese characters for "Pretentious freak who suffers from entitlement syndrome" tattooed on his furry white ass.
ReplyDeleteEither that, or a good transliteration of "doink" in Chinese. :P
ReplyDelete"Prince Mu-Chao"? Like, lol.
ReplyDeleteNow that's pretty shitty.
What kind of grown man would call himself "Prince Mu-Chao"?
ReplyDeleteIt is not like he is Arab. I mean if he was an Arab, there is a chance he might be related to the Saudi king's family.
But according to his Yahoo profile, he is in fu*king Minnisota. What is he, the long lost bastard child of King Ralph?
That is just fu*king ridiculous and sad at the same time.
Tian, this guy does sound like a bit of a flake, but you do walk a pretty fine line between "ethical" and "elitist".
ReplyDeleteI understand and fully agree when you reply to emails by saying "the phrase you want translated does not carry the same meaning in Chinese", "doesn't make sense", and "can't be translated".
However, I don't see anything ethical about withholding information from someone. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but I just don't see anything particularly "ethical" about it. As I see it, your site is trying to raise awareness about Asian cultures and show people that Chinese characters are the basis of real languages, and more than just exotic, vague "symbols". But by withholding the specifics, you run the risk of promoting the same preconception you're fighting.
I'm not saying you should answer every idiot out there who wants a translation just so they can burn it into their skin, but knowedge is something that is free-flowing and multiplies upon itself, as it should be. What people do with the knowledge they acquire is their own ethical responsibility - not yours. If you make one person realize that Chinese is a living means of communication for every hundred people that etch something stupid into their flesh, I still think that's worth it, don't you?
...couldn't hurt your site, either.
Andrew...I see nothing elitist about Tian's stand. It is just common sense. Say Tian were to give Mr...er...Prince Mu-Chao the advice he seeks and Mr...er...Prince goes to a tat artist who inks it in but alters it a bit, or places it upside down...or Mr...er...Prince alters it himself to be more artistic and then it turns out the alterations change the meaning. Who you think Mr...er...Prince is gonna come screaming at, or worse, looking to sue. It is a liability issue and in my opinion Tian is wise not to get into any aspect of advising people what to have inked. Afterall...this is an amusing blog, not a consultation service.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, Chinese character tattoos were originally meant for criminals. By "withholding" information Tian is infact upholding the Asian values. Maybe if you got a thousand emails a month (and growing) asking for translations you can understand it from Tian's prespective. Tian is not obligated to translate for anyone. Yet he has helped many from tattooing nonsense on themselves. What a nice guy!
ReplyDeleteAnother problem with people like you is that you are very vague. You toss around philosophy yet you offer no specific solution. What's ethical about translating for one group of idiots, and not for another group of idiots? That's discrimination. By not translating for anyone not only is it fair but it relieves Tian of an enormous burden.
To Paul:
ReplyDeletePoint well taken. I entirely agree that Tian's policy makes good sense. That can indeed be a good reason for "withholding information" from someone, but at the same time I can't help but think that our society of extreme litigiousness runs counter to the free exchange if information at times for that very reason. Wouldn't you agree?
To Anonymous:
Whether or not a person wants to etch something into skin is their own business. They could just as easily look it up for themselves and do it and still be idiots. Tian may or may not be helping people depending on whether they actually CARE how they will appear. But he is not achieving this by refusing to translate, and he is definitely not "upholding Asian values".
Chinese tattoos were originally meant for criminals - now they are not. "Asian values" are not necessarily the values of Asian people thousands of years ago. They are constantly changing, as are our values. By equating "upholding Asian values" to "respecting ancient traditions", you are promoting the same Western "Asian exoticism" drivel that this site attempts to dispel.
As for "discrimination", you have it entirely backward. What I am saying is NOT to discriminate - to provide accurate translations for everyone that asks - no exceptions. What those people do with that knowledge is their own burden. Tian first made a reference to "ethics", so my answer was philosophical in nature. You can't have one without the other. What kind of a "solution" were you looking for? I'm not making political policy here...I didn't realize a "solution" was required. Obviously Tian isn't obligated to translate for anyone - nor should he be. But there's nothing inherently "ethical" in that.
Now this is just funny: "I suggest Prince Mu-Chao have the Chinese characters for "Pretentious freak who suffers from entitlement syndrome" tattooed on his furry white ass. "
ReplyDeleteHA! Price Mu-Chao. The name in combination with his oh-so-precious pic makes me gag.
Paul, I thought this topic would be best for a different thread. While I agree with you in theory, I wonder how applicable this is in real life? Tian, maybe you would be the best authority on this... do you know of any legal precedent for a lawsuit brought up against someone "advising" a translation of a tattoo?
ReplyDeleteIn America I definitely can envision it, so I agree that it's good to be cautious, but I'm wondering if it's ever actually happened before.
Good for you, Tian. I think it's wise of you not to get involved at all.
ReplyDeleteI really think that Tian needs to put a disclaimer or something that says 'No translation offered' or 'Translations not offered for what the webmaster (me) thinks is idiotic'.
ReplyDeleteLike 'asshole'.
他妈的!
I wonder if the guy just likes Chinese Hero type of characters. His user name reminded me of "马超" from Three Kingdoms. Usually it's spelled with Ma Chao.
ReplyDelete"As for "discrimination", you have it entirely backward. What I am saying is NOT to discriminate - to provide accurate translations for everyone that asks - no exceptions."
ReplyDeleteAre you serious man? Look what you wrote before.
"I'm not saying you should answer every idiot out there who wants a translation just so they can burn it into their skin..."
So which one is it?
"Obviously Tian isn't obligated to translate for anyone - nor should he be."
Right. And by not translating for anyone not only is it fair but it relieves Tian of an enormous burden. Andrew, I'm sure the majority of people in here have no clue what you support.
To Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou need to put a little more time into trying to understand my post before you fire off a reply. It's the kind of "benefit of the doubt" that Tian shows to his "subjects", and that is lacking among the commenters.
Tian should not have to reply to each and every mail he gets because:
1. He is busy.
2. Legal issues, as Paul pointed out.
3. It's not his responsibility.
Read my post again - I never implied that it was his responsibility - quite the opposite. However he implied that not responding was "ethical" (look near the top), which I took issue with. The "I'm not saying you should answer every idiot" above was just referring to the above 3 points. I can see how you might find that sentence unclear, but if you look below it, it's the same as everything else I've been saying up to this point.
Of course, you're right that not translating for anyone is also not discrimination. That's a good point.
I can admit that not translating for anyone is fair if you can admit that it's not "ethical" either.
What the f*ck are you talking about?
ReplyDelete"What I am saying is NOT to discriminate - to provide accurate translations for everyone that asks - no exceptions."
Not responding is ethical. Because if he translates for one person he should do it for everyone else.
How about you two exchange each other's email addresses and continue this battle somewhere else?
ReplyDeleteAh... no I think I'd prefer to drop it right here.
ReplyDeleteTrying to get people to understand ethics who choose not to is like banging your head against a brick wall...sooner or later it's going to leave a dent.
It's quite possible this guy was joking. Based on his profile he is a Discordian, a joke religion based on chaos. The "chao" (pronounced "cow" in english) is in refrence to chao(s), and the discordian religion features the "sacred chao" who is known to say "mu". This is therefore not actually an attemp to have a chinese-sounding name, rather a refrence to an obscure pseudo-religion. You will notice that his profile refers to "freaking the mundanes" (non-discordians) and "sending abnormail to unsuspecting cabbages" (cabbages also essentially meaning non-discordians.) abnormail is the discordian name of sending wierd stuff to people in the mail/email. With that all in mind, I'm not at all sure this person was serious, and is probably rather pleased at the attention they got on your page.
ReplyDeleteNice, Caitlin. I think you nailed it there.
ReplyDelete